Adventures In Book Marketing
Yesterday Chandoo (Pointy Haired Dilbert) made a blog post: 101 Excel Secrets - Recommended E-Book.
It was a link to an ebook by someone named Francis J Hayes. Chandoo was upfront, and stated that he's an affiliate seller for the book.
I'm always interested in Excel secrets, so I took a look at the site.I was appalled. It looks exactly like any of thousands of scam sites on the Web, run by sleazy "experts" trying to make a quick buck from idiots. I normally don't like to such sites, but if you want to take a look, here it is: 101 Secrets of a Microsoft Excel Addict ebook.
Who knows? It might be the best Excel tips books in the world. But anyone with half a brain will click the Back button as soon as they see the site. It just reeks of sleaze.
Francis J Hayes might make a sale or two based on this post, but I posted it because I'm curious. Does that type of marketing actually appeal to Excel users?
By the way, who is Francis J Hayes? He claims to be an expert, but I couldn't find anything on the Web that didn't require payment or a subscription.
- Reader Comments -
Following are comments in response to this item.
The most recent comment is at the bottom.
- By Chandoo. Comment posted 01 April, 2010 10:17pmWow...
Just to be clear, I have bought, read the ebook and found it valuable source of tops for anyone using excel. Also, I have interacted with "Francis" thru email and found him to be legit, fun and passionate individual willing to share his knowledge and ideas with world.
Also, I do not agree with your statement that his sales copy is scammy. If you read the content of what he has written, you will not find any outrageous promises. He has chosen to style his landing pages like old school internet marketers.
Also, My readers seem to have liked the recommendation and as of last count at least 110 people have bought the books from him.
Anyhow, it would be curious to see what others think of his sales page...
- By Darren Eves. Comment posted 02 April, 2010 12:02amI totally agree with John, if I would have landed there I would have taken it as a scam page, although to be fair I wouldn't have hit the back button if I had gone there recommended by one of the Excel sites in a blog post.
It reminds me more of one of the advertising sites that let you create your own site just to get people to follow the links! - By Les. Comment posted 02 April, 2010 12:08amHi John,
That was exactly my impression when I first read Chandoo's blog. I checked the website and quickly escaped.
Regards - By Shawn. Comment posted 02 April, 2010 5:13amAgreed with John. Even after reading Chandoo's post i was skeptical and refused to order a book from a site that reeked of some sort of scam.
- By Dick Kusleika. Comment posted 02 April, 2010 6:24amI've often thought that Spreadsheet Page needed more lightning bolts.
- By John Walkenbach. Comment posted 02 April, 2010 7:36am
He has chosen to style his landing pages like old school internet marketers.
A group that has zero credibility. So what's your point? We should just ignore the fact that his site looks like a scam and buy the book anyway?
There's a great community of Excel people on the Web. They have credibility and they offer lots of free tips. Some of them also sell products. But one thing they have in common is an actual online presence. We know who they are.
Francis J Hayes simply doesn't fit into the community I describe. - By Mike Alexander. Comment posted 02 April, 2010 12:23pmI have to jump into this one. Francis J. Hayes has two issue.
1. I never buy anything from someone who uses their middle intitial. Sorry, it's just a douchey thing to do. The only exception to this rule is if you're President. Somehow, being President of the United States makes it cool to use your middle initial.
2. Web site is horrible. It's not a question of style - it's a question of a minimum level of normalcy.
If the smartest man in the world walk up to you wearing a superhereo costume with the underwear on the outside, you'd dismiss anything he says. Just becase he looks a little mad.
He needs to be in attire the you're used to seeing. Then, you'll listen to what he says.
It's the same with websites. - By chip. Comment posted 02 April, 2010 1:58pmMike A, with the superhero costume, credibility is no problem. It's the underwear on the outside that would blow it for me. Though a guy who goes by Data Pig should watch with the stones, new logo notwithstanding.
I hadn't looked at the site because I thought the graphics for the ebook were so cheesy that I wouldn't like the book. Seeing the site itself now, it only confirms it. I trust Chandoo as an excel expert, but like John, I've never heard of Francis so i wondered about that. Looking at the things I could learn I can do all of them already, so I doubt I'd learn much. If the book is in the same breathless copy mode as the site, I think I'd have a hard time paying it much attention. - By Chandoo. Comment posted 02 April, 2010 6:17pm
A group that has zero credibility. So what's your point? We should just ignore the fact that his site looks like a scam and buy the book anyway?
No point. I just seem to have trusted him after reading his email newsletter for a few months.
Any how, not that I want to take his side or anything. Since he has the links to his public linkedin and twitter profiles in the newsletter, I am pasting those links here:
http://twitter.com/FrancisHayes
http://www.linkedin.com/in/francishayes
But it is really a lesson reading what others think about such pages. Anyways, I will be careful next time when I link to someones pages. - By John Walkenbach. Comment posted 02 April, 2010 6:33pm
Anyways, I will be careful next time when I link to someones pages.
That's a good idea. But those links don't impress me a bit. They're just self-serving sites that offer nothing.
Maybe Francis J Hayes will realize that the Web isn't just a place to attract suckers with cheap infomercial-like marketing. Maybe he'll set up a Web site that doesn't require payment and an email address. Maybe he'll join the Excel community and resign from the huckster community.
The ugly truth is, he's probably doing quite well selling tips that he found on the Web, and wearing out his exclamation point key. - By Jeff Weir. Comment posted 03 April, 2010 3:03amJohn...So what if this guy is out there selling his wares with bad copy? That's not a crime. The guy offers a money back guarantee, and assuming he makes good on it if you asked, and that he's not breaching someone else's rights, I don't see the problem.
You're essentially saying that this guy looks guilty. Maybe he is, but not just because he looks it. To paraphrase Forrest Gump, scam is as scam does. Shouldn't you wait until you've actually been scammed before you definatively call this guy a scammer?
Whether or not Francis J Hayes fit's into the community you describe does not mean that someone couldn't derive value from a business transaction with the guy (or get their money back if they didn't). In fact, someone could be a wizard on excel, and have never posted a thing.
I normally respect you for your writing, and I've got a whole bunch of your books to prove it. But your tone in this piece of writing seems a little sanctimonius. - By John Walkenbach. Comment posted 03 April, 2010 5:59amJeff, I'm saying that his site looks like typical scammer site that you see on the Web. Because of that, I would not buy anything from him. And apparently, others agree with me.
Please feel free to buy the book and report back on the value of the business transaction.
And check this one out too, please:
http://www.automaticblog.net/
It has a 60-day money-back guarantee. Some might think it looks like a scam, but you never know until you try it. - By Jeff Weir. Comment posted 03 April, 2010 5:32pmJohn...due to your word limit for comments, I'll post this in 2 parts.
You're saying a lot more than just that his site looks like a typical scammer site. You doubt his claims that he's an expert, but haven't checked his wares to offer any proof of the contrary. You say the site just reeks of sleaze. Where's your sense of natural justice?
You say Maybe he'll join the Excel community and resign from the huckster community. Well, a huxter came to my door the other day, and they ended up saving me money by switching me to a cheaper electricity supplier. So what's intrinsically wrong with being a huckster? Why does someone have to be a member of the community the way you define it before they dare make a buck? Why is it an ugly truth if someone’s doing quite well selling tips that he found on the Web? How the hell would you know if that was even the case, if you haven’t read his book? - By Jeff Weir. Comment posted 03 April, 2010 5:34pmI agree with chandoo that this is really a lesson reading what others think about such pages. But in life, as in Excel, =”think”=”know” returns false.
So thank you for your suggestion that I part with my money to test/defend your hypothesis...I may do that. But in the interests of natural justice don’t you think you should test your own, regardless of whether I test it myself. That is, don’t you think you should put your money where your mouth is? - By Jeff Weir. Comment posted 03 April, 2010 5:35pmOtherwise all you’re offering with this critique is a book review, where you haven’t actually read the book.
Worse, you are labelling anyone who actually has read the book and valued from it a sucker.
Chandoo bought and read the ebook and found it valuable source of tops for anyone using excel. He tested the value of the transaction, and decided it worthwhile enough to put his credibility on the line. Granted, he had a preexisting relationship with the guy, so wasn't one of these suckers attracted by the guy’s cheap infomercial-like marketing. But given Chandoo endorsed it, he’s saying that even if he was one of these suckers, he’d still recommend the book. - By John Walkenbach. Comment posted 03 April, 2010 6:30pm
You doubt his claims that he's an expert, but haven't checked his wares to offer any proof of the contrary.
So you're saying that if I see some sleazy marketing on the Web, I'm obliged to actually buy the product before I have the right to criticize the marketing?
I don't think so, Jeff.
That is, don’t you think you should put your money where your mouth is?
It costs nothing to critique a Web site.
Francis J Hayes chose the "scam model" for his Web site. In addition, he provides no evidence that he's actually the expert he claims to be. Because of those factors, I didn't bother to check out his product.
And now you criticize me??? - By Jeff Weir. Comment posted 03 April, 2010 8:33pmNo John, I'm not saying that you’re obliged to actually buy the product before [you] have the right to criticize the marketing I'm saying that you went way beyond merely criticizing the guy's marketing.
I wasn’t referring to the cost of critiquing a web site...I was referring to the necessity of actually looking beyond the packaging and critiquing his product if you are going to call his ‘expertness’ into question.
Having a web presence doesn’t necessarily make you an expert. Having no web presence doesn’t necessarily make you a novice. Having a site loaded with perhaps over-the-top marketing doesn’t necessarily make you a scam artist.
Yes I do criticize you, because I don’t think you’re being fair. - By Chandoo. Comment posted 04 April, 2010 12:50am
The ugly truth is, he's probably doing quite well selling tips that he found on the Web, and wearing out his exclamation point key.
The uglier truth is you are just making that statement without never even reading what he wrote in his news letters (sent weekly to over 15000 people) or worrying to check what is in his book. All it takes is a plain email address or few dollars to validate your claims. (you can get the money back or unsubscribe any time. Even if you dont trust him, you can trust me - I did both and have been satisfied enough to vouch for him)
Your argument that his sales page (and site) looks like a huckster's spam site can be understood. But your above statement is just baseless. - By Dick Kusleika. Comment posted 04 April, 2010 5:57amUm, the lightning bolts are gone. I guess I've made the intertubes a better place. And say what you want about FJH, he knows a good suggestion when he sees it.
- By John Walkenbach. Comment posted 04 April, 2010 6:37amChandoo, how many of those 101 tips are not available on the Web?
- By Rick. Comment posted 04 April, 2010 10:59amI thought his web site and this thread was a bad April Fool's joke. Who would buy an ebook with tips for the old version of Excel?
- By JS. Comment posted 04 April, 2010 12:48pmI have been on hundreds of Excel websites and it makes me a little angry when I see these charlatans selling their Excel tips to people who are either too lazy to look for the answer themselves or are too naive to buy it.
The Web provides thousands of Excel tips for free. There is no need to buy Francis J Hayes cheap book. I bet all of his 101 secret excel tips are either on the web or in books at the public library. Moreover, on the top of his book it says, “These tips have not been tested in Excel 2007” If he is an Excel expert, I am sure he would have updated his tips to Excel 2007. Furthermore, why would anyone pay for his book using their credit card? How can anyone trust him with an ugly website like that? - By Jeff Weir. Comment posted 04 April, 2010 1:12pmJohn: Quoting from the guy's own site Sure! You Can Search the Internet and Find Excel Tips But Finding the Really Great Ones Is Like Panning for Gold. It Takes a Lot of Time and Patience.
You're right: at the beginners level there's really not much new under the sun. However, your critisism that this guy is (probably) not serving anything fresh could be extended to Google search...they aren't serving up anything fresh either...they just save you time looking yourself. But then time is money.
Even if you find some great tips on the net, not all your results are going to be easily printable. I spend far too much time sitting in front of a screen (and darn it I'm doing it again right now). One of the benefits to me of your own books is that they are portable: I've got them spread throughout the house, and I'm often picking one up and flicking through it to jog my memory about ways I could save time. - By Jeff Weir. Comment posted 04 April, 2010 1:17pmJS: Following your reasoning that the Web provides thousands of Excel tips for free, and that excel tips are either on the web or in books at the public library, then arguably nhere is no need to buy John Walkenbach's more expensive books either.
I bought a copy of J-Walk's Formulas for Excel 2002, well after Excel 2007 was released. Why? Because it still works in later versions of Excel, and because it was really really cheap. Sure it may not cover functions such as IFERROR, but on the positive side at least anything I build using it is backwards compatible. I've also puchased Debra Dalgleish's pivot tables books recently for excel 2003, despite the fact that I'm probably going to move to 2010 soon. - By Chandoo. Comment posted 04 April, 2010 6:39pm
Chandoo, how many of those 101 tips are not available on the Web?
I am not sure. I am not an excel expert. Based on what I know I found several (at least 25) tips in the book totally new.
But you are not suggesting that we should buy a book only if the content is radically new?!?
Going by that reason, no one should buy your books as most of the content and ideas in them have been thoroughly covered on web somewhere... or for that matter almost any book as pretty much most of the world's knowledge is available online for free...
I bought the book from him because I liked the way he wrote his news letters, I liked his style, his honesty, his passion for excel and his mission. Not because I would find some fascinating new world of excel in his book. - By Chandoo. Comment posted 04 April, 2010 10:41pmBtw John... I have forwarded an email from Francis to you. He has been trying to post a comment here but getting an error for some reason.. it was sent to your gmail id (check spam folder too, just in case). Can you help him...?
- By Francis Hayes. Comment posted 05 April, 2010 5:27amLike millions of Excel users, I have a passion for Excel, which I have been sharing with others for 19 years.
Seven years ago I started my website TheExcelAddict.com because I wanted to share my passion with more than just my co-workers. Since then I have helped more than 15,000 Excel users through my weekly newsletter and by answering thousands of emails.
I have a day job and do all of my online work in my spare time. As most of my online time is consumed with preparing my newsletter and answering emails from my own subscribers, I have not build a presence in the online forums.
Just because I choose to make my contribution to the excel community (which, by the way, is much larger than just the few thousand people who frequent the online forums) primarily through my newsletter, doesn't make it of less value than those who post to online forums. <continued…> - By Francis Hayes. Comment posted 05 April, 2010 5:29amI've received thousands of testimonials as proof.
At the urging of my newsletter readers, I created my ebook two years ago. Since then, three thousand (20%) of my subscribers have purchased it. I have issued 22 refunds - most of which were for duplicate payment errors at ClickBank. Does that 'look' like a scam? Are they all 'suckers' and 'idiots'?
Last week's promotion was meant as a Thank You to my own loyal subscribers. More than 6,000 whom have been with me for more than 3 years. I did not promote this offer outside of my list. Because Chandoo was a subscriber of mine and had read my ebook, he thought some of his readers may find value in it. <continued…> - By Francis Hayes. Comment posted 05 April, 2010 5:30amI have NEVER claimed to be an 'Expert'! I am just someone who has an above average knowledge of Excel and a passion to help others. My target audience is not Excel MVPs or experts. My audience is the vast majority of users that are using only a tiny fraction of Excel's capabilities and who are appreciative when someone can show them how to do things better, faster or easier.
So I use bold, flashy copy on my pages. Is that a crime? Please tell me, where do you see the 'scam' on my website? This is the first time I've heard that accusation in my 7 years online. <continued…> - By Francis Hayes. Comment posted 05 April, 2010 5:33amJohn, you are someone who I had always looked up as an Excel expert and have read all your books. To say that I was shocked and dumbfounded when I saw your callous attack on my character and reputation, based solely on a web page for an ebook that I had promoted exclusively to my own subscribers, is putting it mildly. (That page is now inactive since the promotion ended on April 2).
What would motivate such a malicious attack, when you admit you know nothing about me, have never seen my newsletter and haven't read my ebook, escapes me.
But I'm content in the fact that I know the difference, Chandoo knows the difference, my 15,000 subscribers know the difference and Jeff, unlike some other commenters on your blog, recognize vile and baseless accusations when he sees them.
I wouldn't make such mean-spirited comments about anyone, even someone who attacks strangers just for the purpose of adding 'lightning bolts' to their blog - By John Walkenbach. Comment posted 05 April, 2010 6:27am
What would motivate such a malicious attack
Hardly a malicious attack. I just pointed out that your web site looks like a scam site. And I haven't changed my mind.
If your newsletter is free, why not post it on the Web?
With so many fans, hundreds of sites must link to theexceladdict.com, right? Well, three do.
http://www.google.com/search?as_lq=theexceladdict.com - By Tom. Comment posted 05 April, 2010 11:15am
But your tone in this piece of writing seems a little sanctimonius.
Agreed. - By Jeff Weir. Comment posted 05 April, 2010 4:52pmWhat would constitute a malicous attack, givin labeling someone a scammer hardly qualifies?
What does it matter if exactly zero sites link to theexceladdict.com?
What is this, public blogging, or public flogging? - By Curtington. Comment posted 05 April, 2010 5:43pmThis whole thing makes me mad as fire.
- By jhenderson. Comment posted 05 April, 2010 6:17pmJohn
I have known Francis for about 7 years.
I have even helped him answer questions from people who sent him emails asking for help.
He is not a scammer.He does not bill himself as excel guru, but as an addict. - By Kevin Kelly. Comment posted 05 April, 2010 7:41pmJ-Walk writes Excel books, and his publishers market and sell them.
Hayes writes Excel books and he markets and sells them himself.
Assuming Hayes' self-reported numbers are correct, it looks like his marketing designs are effective.
What would J-Walks' site look like if he had to sell all his own books?
Are there any self-published book sites that are inviting and effective? - By John Walkenbach. Comment posted 05 April, 2010 7:45pmOK, so he's probably not a scammer. But his web site still sucks.
Francis, if you'd like to help change my opinion:
1. Post your newsletters on the Web for all to see. That way we'll know that you're not an email harvester, and have nothing to hide.
2. Create a web site that doesn't look like a scam site.
Pretty simple. Google will love to index those newsletters. And you can spread your knowledge to everyone, instead of just those people who are willing to give their email address to a stranger who claims to know Excel, without actually offering any proof.
Or, you can just keep doing what you're doing. Maybe that method of marketing is really paying off for you. If so, congrats. But I would never buy anything from a site that looks like that. - By John Walkenbach. Comment posted 05 April, 2010 8:10pm
What would J-Walks' site look like if he had to sell all his own books?
It would probably look much like it does now. Except I'd include some sample chapters for free.
What's your point, Kevin? Are you saying that a scammy-looking site is more effective?
But why bother? Here's the solution:
http://www.my-online-income-system.com/
You should really try it. Lots of testimonials, so it must be legit. Who's Kimberly Hoffman? Nobody knows, but she offers a money-back guarantee.
Yes, that's a scammy-looking site -- Not too different from the Excel Addict's site. That's my point, folks. - By John Wilson. Comment posted 05 April, 2010 8:18pmSorry but I just had to comment on this:
"Quoting from the guy's own site Sure! You Can Search the Internet and Find Excel Tips But Finding the Really Great Ones Is Like Panning for Gold. It Takes a Lot of Time and Patience.
"
You should search because 95% of the time, your answer is there (not just for Excel but for just about anything that you wanted to know).
Is it hard to do (like panning for gold)? Nah. Pretty easy.
Take a lot of time & patience? Nah. (unless you're stupid).
And for that 5% that you can't find, there's a newsgroup where the best minds will spell out your answer for free.
By the way...what is a "really great" Excel tip.
Every single one of those "really great" Excel tips is absolutely useless unless you need it.
The "tip" (whether it be really great or absolutely simple) that I need right now to finish whatever I'm trying to do is better than any "really great" Excel tip that I might find. - By Jeff Weir. Comment posted 05 April, 2010 8:54pmOK, so he's probably not a scammer. ...boy, that's magnanimous .
Post your newsletters on the Web for all to see. That way we'll know that you're not an email harvester, and have nothing to hide. ...so can you explain to me how free content denotes that someone is not an email harvester?
Create a web site that doesn't look like a scam site. ...what, one that looks 'for real', like a phishing site? - By John Walkenbach. Comment posted 05 April, 2010 8:58pmCome back later when you sober up, Jeff. #40 makes no sense.
- By chrisham. Comment posted 05 April, 2010 9:02pmPart 1 - I have actually painstakingly read through all the 39 comments posted here, and I have nothing but great admiration for the boldness Jeff Weir displayed here! The moment I read this blog from John, I kept saying, just how could someone who commands such authority in the Excel world be writing this??? What would have been simply more effective in this Excel Blog community was a review of this book, and not call into question someone's expertise or a web page design!
Again, as regular user of Excel, sometimes just a SINGLE new Tip can make all the difference in the real world. - By chrisham. Comment posted 05 April, 2010 9:03pmPart 2 - John, I still have a great admiration for your simply outstanding service in this field, I possess your full Bookshelf library of Excel books including your PUP07 utility and several freebies you offer generously on your website! But in this case, I think you erred, and rather than simplying condeming Francis Hayes and take some cheap shots at him like so many of my other Excel "Heroes" have done, I have honestly chose to voice my opinion!
Borrowing from the Spiderman movie: "With great power come greater responsibility"... If Francis Hayes is no scammer, think how damaging an effect such an article would make! - By John Walkenbach. Comment posted 05 April, 2010 9:22pm
he moment I read this blog from John, I kept saying, just how could someone who commands such authority in the Excel world be writing this???
It's pretty simple, actually. I abhor scams. Francis' site LOOKS like a scam site. So that's why I made this post.
Why does everyone keep insisting that I actually buy his material before passing judgment on his site? My point is that his site looks scammy -- just like thousands of sites that look exactly like his and ARE scams. For whatever reason, he chose to use that same site model. I think it was a bad choice. It's as simple as that.
There are many good Excel sites created by people who don't require payment or an email address. So why should anyone care about Francis J Hayes? Until he actually posts some freely-available material, he can be judged only by his marketing tactics -- which are scammy. - By chrisham. Comment posted 05 April, 2010 9:50pmIf it just about his site and how it looks, You are absolutely right, this does look every bit of a scam website, similar to the ones that boast of "Weight loss" or "Photographic Memory"... etc etc!
But since your timing of this post came, when Chandoo who has a strong presence in the Excel Web community made a promotion of this book, I was wondering what if I gathered 100 good solutions that I think most regular Excel users are oblivious to? Should I need to have a web presence or offer free excel tips before I think of publication, or risk being attacked as fraudlent?
Would I be critique by someone who has no intention to read my work? - By John Walkenbach. Comment posted 05 April, 2010 10:08pm
I was wondering what if I gathered 100 good solutions that I think most regular Excel users are oblivious to? Should I need to have a web presence or offer free excel tips before I think of publication, or risk being attacked as fraudlent?
If it were a choice between having no web site vs. one that looks like a scam, you'd be better off with no web site.
You mention Chandoo. Why did Chandoo link to his site? Obviously, it was because of the potential for affiliate income. I don't recall seeing any links from Chandoo prior to the one that earned him some money. In fact, nobody links to Excel Addict unless there's a possibility of making money from it. That's because he has absolutely nothing to offer -- unless you pay some money or give up an email address.
Read comment #37 again. It's the perfect solution. - By Kevin Kelly. Comment posted 05 April, 2010 10:10pmJohn, I think some of the confusion may come in your use of the word "bad" as in
"For whatever reason, he chose to use that same site model. I think it was a bad choice. It's as simple as that."
Do you mean bad as in poor, as in he could sell more books if he had a different design?
Or, do you mean bad as in unethical, as in he ought not to even appear sleazy?
I am assuming you mean the former, that you are merely trying to help him sell more books. - By Chandoo. Comment posted 05 April, 2010 10:13pmJohn...
OK, so he's probably not a scammer. But his web site still sucks.
Francis, if you'd like to help change my opinion:
1. Post your newsletters on the Web for all to see. That way we'll know that you're not an email harvester, and have nothing to hide.
2. Create a web site that doesn't look like a scam site.
Pretty simple. Google will love to index those newsletters.
I want to let all of you know that Google did index his tips (at least few of them). You can find them here:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr;=&q=site:http://www.theexceladdict.com/&start=10&sa=N - By Chandoo. Comment posted 05 April, 2010 10:15pm
You mention Chandoo. Why did Chandoo link to his site? Obviously, it was because of the potential for affiliate income. I don't recall seeing any links from Chandoo prior to the one that earned him some money. In fact, nobody links to Excel Addict unless there's a possibility of making money from it. That's because he has absolutely nothing to offer -- unless you pay some money or give up an email address.
Thank you... - By Kevin Kelly. Comment posted 05 April, 2010 10:24pm" Are you saying that a scammy-looking site is more effective?"
or
Are you saying that a not-scammy-looking site is more effective?
I just want to be sure that that is what we are talking about: how effective is the site?
If so, I would think this question could be answered pretty simply with data. Are there less-scammy-looking sites for self-published books that are more effective than scammy sites.
I don't know of any inviting self-published sites. Suggestions? Hayes has volunteered some data. I'd love to get some numbers from a less-scammy-looking self publisher site. - By John Walkenbach. Comment posted 05 April, 2010 10:29pmAh, so his tips are on the Web. Thank you for posting that. In fact, they are accessible from this page:
http://www.theexceladdict.com/tutorials.htm
Now that page is just fine. Not scammy at all. But I wonder why he doesn't link to it from his scammy page?
Chandoo, since you seem to be the only one who has the ebook... are those the same tips from the book? - By Chandoo. Comment posted 05 April, 2010 10:42pm
Chandoo, since you seem to be the only one who has the ebook... are those the same tips from the book?
There is some overlap, but the book has many more tips. As Francis himself said in the comment,
At the urging of my newsletter readers, I created my ebook two years ago.
it is bound to have overlaps. I have been reading his newsletter only since Jan 2010. I would imagine he has taken tips from last 2-3 years and neatly compiled them in to this book.
John... I feel much this ping pong is because you have not seen his book. Would you accept if I gift you a copy of his book? You can read and then post your review?
Also, it is such an irony that he recommends most of your books - http://www.theexceladdict.com/books.htm (disable ad blocker as he embeds amazon store widget) - By Kevin Kelly. Comment posted 05 April, 2010 10:45pmI have a question for Mr. Hayes, since he may be still reading.
I am interested in how you arrived at the style and method and design of your site? Did you try and test alternative designs that were less jolting, and more transparent? It is curious that your design resembles other sites also selling self-published work. Is that because it was simplest to import their design since they seemed to be "working" or did you actually keep testing other designs against the standard self-published model? In short how did you arrive at your design, which to many outsider eyes, seems to be the same design as many sites selling self-published works of all stripes? - By Chandoo. Comment posted 05 April, 2010 10:48pm@ Kevin
I don't know of any inviting self-published sites. Suggestions? Hayes has volunteered some data. I'd love to get some numbers from a less-scammy-looking self publisher site.
I do sell a formula ebook myself (although most of the book's content is available free online at low-res). I have been selling it since Feb 2009. So far I have sold 200 copies of the book (it is not my biggest earner
). You can see the sales page here: http://chandoo.org/wp/excel-formula-helper-e-book/
- By Dan Randles. Comment posted 06 April, 2010 1:04amThere is very little I can see wrong in John's original post. It is a critique of the website design which in John's view has the appearance of a typical scam site.
I'm always interested in Excel secrets, so I took a look at the site.I was appalled. It looks exactly like any of thousands of scam sites on the Web, run by sleazy "experts" trying to make a quick buck from idiots.
John then goes on to ask if folks actually respond to this kind of marketing. Given that John hadn't heard of Francis and apparently couldn't easily access any of his material without payement - he then asks if anyone else has heard of him before? What is wrong this? For me this is perfectly reasonable and John has every right to voice his opinion and ask these questions on his blog. I agree with John, Francis's site is cheesy but good luck to the guy - there is certainly a market for his stuff and like all purchases - buyer beware. - By Jeff Weir. Comment posted 06 April, 2010 1:46amJohn, you’re right...from here I can’t prove it to you that I’m not drunk beyond reasonable doubt. Sorry about that. To try to convince you otherwise, I'll try again in plainer English.
You said OK, so he's probably not a scammer. I was using the term magnanimous ironically, to make the point that that’s not a very generous way to state in hindsightthat someone is probably not being dishonest after all.
You said that if Francis should post his newsletters on the Web for all to see, everyone would know he wasn’t an email harvester. I was questioning your logic here of this red herring. Hell, you collect email addresses yourself from those commenter’s who choose to provide them... and some other excel sites out there insist on email addresses. How do I know you’re not an email harvester, or them? I don’t. I simply choose to trust otherwise. <continues> - By Jeff Weir. Comment posted 06 April, 2010 1:47amYou suggested he create a web site that doesn't look like a scam site. I was pointing out that any scammer worth his salt does just that. They call it phishing down here in New Zealand, where the drunks live. So if this guy was a scammer, I think he could aim higher.
Now you say that Chandoo obviously linked to his site because of the potential for affiliate income. Apart from the fact that I doubt you’re a mindreader, It might have escaped your attention that Chandoo links to sites with no income whatsoever. Now why would he go and do that if he made no money from it? The answer isn’t obvious to me. You might as well say there’s a correlation between sales of Power Programming with VBA and the rise of Google. After all, I don’t recall Google existing before your book. - By Mike Alexander. Comment posted 06 April, 2010 5:20amOk...I've been watching this thread with a giddy fascination that only a Jerry Springer episode can bring.
I have to jump in now.
After all the points, I'm going to side with J-walk. Here are the reasons.
1. I hate sites where the homepage blasts you with a sales pitch. If I go to http://www.theexceladdict.com/, I get no tips, no help, no indication that the site can do anything for me except sell me something.
2. I hate sites where I have to register to see their secrets. If i go to http://www.theexceladdict.com/, I have to register to get any free tips. If this site let's you get to free knowledge without registering, it sure is difficult to find. - By Mike Alexander. Comment posted 06 April, 2010 5:21am3. I love commerce, but only if it's mixed with a healthy dose of originality and free stuff. Sites like PHd, PTS Blog, DataPig, and J-walk all sell stuff. But they also give away a ton of knowledge for free (WITHOUT asking for anything from the reader as a requirement).
Even Mr. Excel, who is the king of Infomercial-Style Excel Marketing, provides a ton of free resources to the Excel community. Over a thousand free Pod-Casts for free! - By Mike Alexander. Comment posted 06 April, 2010 5:21amI have to agree that theexceladdict.com has a palpable feel of a smarmy e-commerce site (quite a bit like that Video Professor douche bag). Whether it's a scam or not, you have to admit that there are much better places to go for Excel help. I get the sense that Francis gets the poor bastards who stumbled onto his site, not knowing there are better alternatives out there.
I love the PHD site. Specifically because of Chandoo's willingness to share his "ORIGINAL" tips. To be completely honest, I was surprised to see that Chandoo liked to Francis' site. It could be that Chandoo has a personal relationship to Francis. It could be that Chandoo has been impressed by Francis' skill. I personally would not have linked to it. - By Mike Alexander. Comment posted 06 April, 2010 5:30amSorry for the multiple comments:
The Comment Nazi here has employed Gestapo commenting rules, forcing me to break my thoughts up into three blocks. I look like a looney who keeps coming back to add more thoughts. - By Hui.... Comment posted 06 April, 2010 5:57amfrom Australia for all it's worth
" Innocent Until Proven Guilty ! " - By banjo brad. Comment posted 06 April, 2010 12:35pmYou have to admit -
This blog entry probably has done more free advertising for that webpage than any other site! - By Jeff Weir. Comment posted 06 April, 2010 4:07pmMike, I agree with most everything you said. More particularly, I agree with the way you said it...you've stated your view without labeling or inferring that sundry people are stupid, con artists,
sleazy, self-serving, hucksters, drunk, guilty, email-harvesters, or profiteers. - By Jeff Weir. Comment posted 06 April, 2010 4:08pm...although you did insult my underwear in comment 7.
- By Chandoo. Comment posted 06 April, 2010 6:46pm
To be completely honest, I was surprised to see that Chandoo liked to Francis' site. It could be that Chandoo has a personal relationship to Francis. It could be that Chandoo has been impressed by Francis' skill. I personally would not have linked to it.
Mike,
Just to be clear, My recommendation is for his book (and news letter). If I had to land on his site by chance without never reading his news letter or not hearing about him before, I would have done the same thing John, Mike etc. did - press the back button (in fact I remember stumbling on Francis site once last year and not registering for his news letter or buying).
I agree that Francis can benefit alot and help others even more by restructuring his site and making his content more accessible etc.
But I disagree with arguments that go like "he may be copying and selling stuff", "he may be scamming" even when the evidence for opposite is presented... - By SuperSean. Comment posted 06 April, 2010 9:17pmJohn,
I read the entire thread before clicking the link you provide to theexceladdict website. If I had been provided the link by ANYONE I would have immediately closed my browser.
I think your feedback should be viewed as constructive criticism from one web/blog master to another. Get a grip all of yous who are misunderstanding what is going on here - By AprilFooled. Comment posted 08 April, 2010 1:03amI just noticed - the initial entry was posted on the 1st of April. This whole thing is a tricky April Fools Day suck in. An elaborate Excel Easter egg conspiracy - Boy, you guys...you had me fooled...
- By Tom Anichini. Comment posted 08 April, 2010 9:08amAll you critics of Mr. Hayes' site are overlooking what his site signals to the lay Excel user: his site doesn't signal "scam" or "huckster," especially since it never claims he's an expert. It makes pretty clear that he is a highly functional lay Excel user. He calls himself the Excel "addict," after all. You say "scam" I say "e-commerce novice who could use some feedback on his site's appearance." Feedback: Done!
Given Chandoo's endorsement and the money-back guarantee I purchased. Within a few minutes, I found a few tips that were immediately applicable to my Excel use. <$8 well-spent!
John: I regret that your thoughtful comments in #37 were not part of your initial post. Had they been, I suspect this thread wouldn't have been so long and its tone would have been much more collegial.
Chandoo: I appreciate your blog posts and don't mind your endorsements, even if they're conflicted.
Mike Alexander: "Douchey?" What is this, Deadspin? - By Catherine. Comment posted 09 April, 2010 3:32amI bought this book, solely on chandoo's recommendation, as I respect his judgement. I agree the website is unimpressive but the book is great and I am happy to have it. I am NOT a superuser of Excel but a keen learner and I appreciate all the help I can get. I do not resent paying a small amount to get good value and I do not think Francis is a fake. Just my impression, maybe I am wrong. The ideas in this book are not the standard tips you can find everywhere on the web.
- By JP. Comment posted 09 April, 2010 12:27pmYou can actually view some free content on his site. I won't post the link, just go to the base URL and visit the tutorials.htm page. I find the tips to be overly simplistic for someone whose self-reported Excel usage is >18 years.
- By JP. Comment posted 09 April, 2010 12:39pmBy the way did anyone notice that every one of Francis' comments has a backlink?
- By John Walkenbach. Comment posted 09 April, 2010 3:10pmYes, Francis seems to like creating links to his site. For the record, links posted in comments here do nothing for SEO. If you look at the URL, the link actually points to this domain.
- By Yoav. Comment posted 12 April, 2010 12:54amJohn. I think you are wrong.
But...
http://xkcd.com/386/ - By Mimi. Comment posted 27 May, 2010 2:29amIn defense of Francis Hayes of Canada, I bought his ebook, too, and found several tips I had never used before. I've also communicated with him a few times to ask questions. He seems like a sincere, polite guy and has always responded within 2 days.
There is some good advice from "little known" Excel experts in cyberspace, and they all aren't necessarily going to have a fancy website. Take what you can use and pass it on. Share the knowledge! - By Mimi. Comment posted 27 May, 2010 2:41amForgot to say that his weekly newsletter teaches me something new that I can use at work. He gives the reader an Excel tip with illustrations as well as a non-Excel tip like something for Windows or Google.
I appreciate people like this. By the way, I am purchasing your Excel 2007 Tips book (my company is purchasing it for me), but I am disappointed that you posted comments like this. - By T. Brindle. Comment posted 28 July, 2010 3:27amI purchased the Ebook a few days ago and when it came to down loading the 101 secrets of a Microsoft addict, the web page does not exist. No response was made to an e mail sent to Francis Hayes directly as per his purported address. It appears that this is a scam which cost a few Dollars
- By T. Brindle. Comment posted 28 July, 2010 11:18pmHi again
I respectfully withdraw my comment posted on 28th July as I was able to down load the program today.
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Spreadsheet Page Blog
Welcome to the Spreadsheet Page Blog. This is where you find the latest news on my books, add-ins, and other Excel-related topics. Comments are welcome.